1. I hope Marco Danelli feels much better, and he will be able to make bespoke swords for years to come. I grew up in the hobby, looking at his swords.
2. I knew that Chris apprenticed under Marco, but I didn't know that Marco apprenticed under Paul MacDonald. It's a small world! Wait, are we seeing a live lineage developing for sword-smiths? Chris, are you taking an apprentice? :)
3. The Baroque style took everything that was great from the Renaissance and made it better. But the Rococo style just added useless details until it overwhelmed the senses. This is also true with sword hilts from the period, the ones housed in Vienna in particular. The majority of people don't like them. They look interesting, but only as a curiosity.
4. The regret of passing by a sword you had a chance to buy is so relatable. :)
5. At 1050 grams, with a 35.1 inches blade, a point of balance of 5 inches from the quillon block sounds excellent. I am curious what the original customer had in mind. If I add another 100 grams to the total weight, maybe I would prefer a point of balance of 4 inches, but not at the listed weight. At 100 grams less, so 950 grams in total, I would even accept a 7 inches point of balance (the case for the LK Chen's Ribaldo modern reproduction, which feels quite good in the hand).
6. The piece you showcased is clearly a sidesword, as in a sword with a relatively wide blade of about 90cm in length. But this style of hilt is what I see in museum pieces being usually married to a narrower blade that tends to reach 100cm. Between a Manciolino era sidesword that borrows from earlier swords and a Capoferro era fully developed rapier, I think the sword I mention acts as a bridge in function (which is why I'm attributing it to Agrippa's influence). I'm preparing three posts that I will release all at once when ready, since I really want to talk about this.
I am certain this hilt style was first used for a sidesword/cut and thrust style, though. It first appeared in the early- mid-1500s, and it is constructed to protect the hand from cuts - especially those that happen when you’re blade-on-blade contact.
And don’t get me started on Rococo. Thet era is responsible for Some really over-wrought designs and decorations on musical instruments as well…
But this piece (https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/22366) that would look the part for an early side-sword, is from ca.1490. And these are more the swords I would associate with Manciolino or Marozzo teachings (since I would put Dardi and his school's style as mid 1400s, and I speculate that by the time Manciolino and Marozzo got their books printed their fencing forms were already in use by some time).
So my speculation, and what I am looking at these days by paying more attention to the date of these type of swords, is that we see a change around this date. Maybe Agrippa triggered the change, maybe he just adapted his style to a new trend in sideswords. But I think this is the inflection point when the cut made room for the thrust.
By the start of the 1600s, we see what we consider today classical rapiers and the masters that introduced new styles in fencing. So 1550-1600, we have that period for longer sideswords focused on the thrust (while still being able to cut quite well). Earlier sideswords and later sideswords (while I wouldn't call either as being rapiers to separate them from later swords) are quite different animals, and they did coexist for a while (the thrust evolving into the rapier and the cut into the basket-hilt broadswords as time passed). At least that's how I see things at this point, and I am still learning as I am writing this post.
Ooohhhh.... I hadn't seen the original in a long time. Still lovely!
So I'm not arguing that this hilt wasn't used into the era of thrust-primary (or even thrust-only) fencing. But what I'm saying is - having used a hilt like this and a hilt like the 1490 one you posted (also lovely!) in mock-combat, that decorative "nail" attached to the fore-ring blocks the cut that slides down the blade to slice the hand. It's the same principle as the forward ring on the 1490 sword, only in this case it hangs in space by itself and the ring is twisted to cover more of the hand. It's also the same principle you find here with the nails: https://www.arms-n-armor.com/products/serenissima-rapier
So in my experience, this hilt developed from the earlier type that had two nails, and was made to protect the un-armored hand both from a downward cut to the hand and from cuts that slid down the blade, but was attractive enough to carry on as the blades narrowed and lengthened into more thrust-oriented applications.
Yes, no disagreement. Of course, the side-sweep emerged to protect from glancing cuts to the hand and side-nails or side-rings help to stop a blade farther from the hand when sliding down (or in a bind). Sorry if I lead to confusion on this aspect.
Btw, I think this type of sweep bar that starts from the finger-ring, makes it easier to fit a larger glove in HEMA (as in, heavier gloves doesn't get obstructed by the larger ring in a two side-rings design). This can be argued to be the fault of the glove as well, but that's a different discussion.
Few things:
1. I hope Marco Danelli feels much better, and he will be able to make bespoke swords for years to come. I grew up in the hobby, looking at his swords.
2. I knew that Chris apprenticed under Marco, but I didn't know that Marco apprenticed under Paul MacDonald. It's a small world! Wait, are we seeing a live lineage developing for sword-smiths? Chris, are you taking an apprentice? :)
3. The Baroque style took everything that was great from the Renaissance and made it better. But the Rococo style just added useless details until it overwhelmed the senses. This is also true with sword hilts from the period, the ones housed in Vienna in particular. The majority of people don't like them. They look interesting, but only as a curiosity.
4. The regret of passing by a sword you had a chance to buy is so relatable. :)
5. At 1050 grams, with a 35.1 inches blade, a point of balance of 5 inches from the quillon block sounds excellent. I am curious what the original customer had in mind. If I add another 100 grams to the total weight, maybe I would prefer a point of balance of 4 inches, but not at the listed weight. At 100 grams less, so 950 grams in total, I would even accept a 7 inches point of balance (the case for the LK Chen's Ribaldo modern reproduction, which feels quite good in the hand).
6. The piece you showcased is clearly a sidesword, as in a sword with a relatively wide blade of about 90cm in length. But this style of hilt is what I see in museum pieces being usually married to a narrower blade that tends to reach 100cm. Between a Manciolino era sidesword that borrows from earlier swords and a Capoferro era fully developed rapier, I think the sword I mention acts as a bridge in function (which is why I'm attributing it to Agrippa's influence). I'm preparing three posts that I will release all at once when ready, since I really want to talk about this.
I am certain this hilt style was first used for a sidesword/cut and thrust style, though. It first appeared in the early- mid-1500s, and it is constructed to protect the hand from cuts - especially those that happen when you’re blade-on-blade contact.
And don’t get me started on Rococo. Thet era is responsible for Some really over-wrought designs and decorations on musical instruments as well…
For your beautiful sword, there's a clear museum example that was most likely used for inspiration: https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/22361
So it's a style datable to ca.1550–60.
But this piece (https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/22366) that would look the part for an early side-sword, is from ca.1490. And these are more the swords I would associate with Manciolino or Marozzo teachings (since I would put Dardi and his school's style as mid 1400s, and I speculate that by the time Manciolino and Marozzo got their books printed their fencing forms were already in use by some time).
But from ca.1550, we see longer, narrower blades appearing on these type of hilts (i.e. your sword type). For example: https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/25642
So my speculation, and what I am looking at these days by paying more attention to the date of these type of swords, is that we see a change around this date. Maybe Agrippa triggered the change, maybe he just adapted his style to a new trend in sideswords. But I think this is the inflection point when the cut made room for the thrust.
By the start of the 1600s, we see what we consider today classical rapiers and the masters that introduced new styles in fencing. So 1550-1600, we have that period for longer sideswords focused on the thrust (while still being able to cut quite well). Earlier sideswords and later sideswords (while I wouldn't call either as being rapiers to separate them from later swords) are quite different animals, and they did coexist for a while (the thrust evolving into the rapier and the cut into the basket-hilt broadswords as time passed). At least that's how I see things at this point, and I am still learning as I am writing this post.
Ooohhhh.... I hadn't seen the original in a long time. Still lovely!
So I'm not arguing that this hilt wasn't used into the era of thrust-primary (or even thrust-only) fencing. But what I'm saying is - having used a hilt like this and a hilt like the 1490 one you posted (also lovely!) in mock-combat, that decorative "nail" attached to the fore-ring blocks the cut that slides down the blade to slice the hand. It's the same principle as the forward ring on the 1490 sword, only in this case it hangs in space by itself and the ring is twisted to cover more of the hand. It's also the same principle you find here with the nails: https://www.arms-n-armor.com/products/serenissima-rapier
So in my experience, this hilt developed from the earlier type that had two nails, and was made to protect the un-armored hand both from a downward cut to the hand and from cuts that slid down the blade, but was attractive enough to carry on as the blades narrowed and lengthened into more thrust-oriented applications.
Yes, no disagreement. Of course, the side-sweep emerged to protect from glancing cuts to the hand and side-nails or side-rings help to stop a blade farther from the hand when sliding down (or in a bind). Sorry if I lead to confusion on this aspect.
Btw, I think this type of sweep bar that starts from the finger-ring, makes it easier to fit a larger glove in HEMA (as in, heavier gloves doesn't get obstructed by the larger ring in a two side-rings design). This can be argued to be the fault of the glove as well, but that's a different discussion.
Agreed - this is an excellent design for HEMA C&T.
Marco always does wonderful work, that sounds like a great sword! A lucky opportunity indeed.